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  • I have a problem with my dyno tune.

    I posted this on another site, but I'd like to get some advice from the experts, please. I have an 01' Mustang GT 2V with a new built motor, stage 3 heads and custom cams (similar to stage 2 NA grinds) and other bolt ons. My tuner only tuned to 5k and set the rev limiter at 6500 (which is fine with me, but why not tune it to that point). I'm afraid to drive the car now because the car is so rich it burns my eyes and chokes me and I don't want to wash out the cylinder walls.
    What should the a/f be NA? They said it's a conservative tune and is fat but the exhaust fumes burns my eyes and makes me choke, my dad followed me home on the interstate and said he could sell the fumes from behind me.
    I don't have a scanner so I took pics.



    it's hard to tell from the pics but the blue line coming in from the left up high and dropping is the a/f
    the very bottom line is 11.6, the next lines going up are 12.1,12.5,13.0,13.5,13.9,14.4,14.8 (it's starts around 15:1 @ 2945 rpm, from ~3400-3800 it looks like 12.2-12.3, then drops steady to about 11.7 @ 4200rpm then finishes around 11.8 or so

    Here's the link to the other forum, it has a little more info., if I'm not supposed to hyperlink on here I appoligize.
    http://www.mustangworld.com/forums/e...post&p=8101699
    I can give a complete list of mods if needed.
    Thanks in advance!
    Mike

  • #2
    01gt4.6:

    Not a big help here but something things to consider....

    Your car will be running in closed loop as you cruise down the highway so it appears that there is a problem with the MAF function, O2 sensors (I don't think so since there are no codes), or there's a leak of unmetered air into the engine. There's probably a few other things but I suspect that the MAF is not dialed in. You can tune the MAF function from 3000 rpm down to idle and then, with a wideband O2 sensor, you can dial in the MAF in the upper range of RPM. BUT, you need the Pro Racer software to do this (Advantage III).
    It is not expensive (compared to many other mods) and it helps to get the most from what you have.

    HTH,

    Chris
    2012 GT RTR 6MT; white & black
    * 3.73's, FRPP ProCal tune
    1998 GT w/4R70W (black & grey), SXA2 - gone but not forgotten

    Pro Racer Calibrations: ZFK2 (coming) & NFC1

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by nyuk98gt
      01gt4.6:

      Not a big help here but something things to consider....

      Your car will be running in closed loop as you cruise down the highway so it appears that there is a problem with the MAF function, O2 sensors (I don't think so since there are no codes), or there's a leak of unmetered air into the engine. There's probably a few other things but I suspect that the MAF is not dialed in. You can tune the MAF function from 3000 rpm down to idle and then, with a wideband O2 sensor, you can dial in the MAF in the upper range of RPM. BUT, you need the Pro Racer software to do this (Advantage III).
      It is not expensive (compared to many other mods) and it helps to get the most from what you have.

      HTH,

      Chris
      thanks Chris! They swapped the stock MAF to an SCT 2600 and said the MAF wasn't the issue and went back to the stock unit. They also changed the O2 sensors and check for leaks, I had disconnected the nitrous and fuel line going into the shark nossle (NX) so they connected a rubber hose to it to keep out unmetered air. Why would a tuner only go to 5k rpm with a tune? The valvetrain and motor are good to well over 6500 and with my heads and cams should make peak power in thr 6k range. Shouldn't the tuner have the Pro Racer software or what ever is needed to tune my car? I assume that it's safe to say that I shouldn't drive my car until I get another tune? I'm being told that 13:1-13.5:1 is a good a/f for an NA car, is this correct? I don't know squat about tuning, but I'd like to know what to say when I call my tuner. I plan on calling him tomorrow to see about getting a retune. I told him I wanted him to tune it to 6500 but he didn't want to (he said he wasn't going to bring it that high), I'm sure when I tell him that the 11.8:1 is too rich and it needs to be leaned up some, he'll disagree.
      Thanks Guys!!
      Mike

      Comment


      • #4
        Mike,
        I see a few descrepencies the tunefile and hardware as well. I personally have a customer who has a 01 4.6L with Patriot stage 2 heads and Comp stage2 cams, upper elbow,cold air intake,long tubes, x-pipe and 2.5" catback. When you state that your tuner mentioned your stock maf is ok, well my customer's MAF was running 960 ad counts out of 1023 (94% of the meter being used). I never recommend running a meter to that duty cycle as there is always a cushion necessary. As a good rule of thumb I would never run any injector,MAF meter or fuel pump greater than 80% duty cycle. You definately need a upgrade for your application.

        Secondly, N/A applications vary but a good rule of thumb for a/f ratio's for n/a cars will be 12.5-12.8 range. This all determines whether the car is heavy,light,how high rpms turned,etc.... The above combination on the motor liked 12.7 the best. This was in n/a form. On the juice the above car reacted the best to 11:2 a/f. Where is your location? If you are close I could retune you.-j
        HensonPerformance,Inc.
        www.hensonperformance.com

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by jah81592
          Mike,
          I see a few descrepencies the tunefile and hardware as well. I personally have a customer who has a 01 4.6L with Patriot stage 2 heads and Comp stage2 cams, upper elbow,cold air intake,long tubes, x-pipe and 2.5" catback. When you state that your tuner mentioned your stock maf is ok, well my customer's MAF was running 960 ad counts out of 1023 (94% of the meter being used). I never recommend running a meter to that duty cycle as there is always a cushion necessary. As a good rule of thumb I would never run any injector,MAF meter or fuel pump greater than 80% duty cycle. You definately need a upgrade for your application.

          Secondly, N/A applications vary but a good rule of thumb for a/f ratio's for n/a cars will be 12.5-12.8 range. This all determines whether the car is heavy,light,how high rpms turned,etc.... The above combination on the motor liked 12.7 the best. This was in n/a form. On the juice the above car reacted the best to 11:2 a/f. Where is your location? If you are close I could retune you.-j
          I am in Slidell, La (about 20 miles north of New Orleans). Besides calling my tuner is there any way for me to know what the duty cycle was on it. I feel like I should have plenty of injector (30#) and fuel pump (03 cobra pumps and tank), the MAF...I'm not so sure of. He did say that I had plenty of room with the MAF. My car weighs about 3200# without driver. My main concern is that I may wash out the cylinders/rings so I'm not even driving the car. Also why would a tuner only go to 5k rpm on my setup?
          Last edited by 01gt4.6; 11-23-2007, 11:53 AM.

          Comment


          • #6
            01gt4.6:

            You can use your trusty XCal2 to datalog "everything", including fuel pump duty cycle or pump voltage along with fuel pressure (rail pressure).

            Yes, your tuner has a hi-po version of Advantage (so more parameters available than to the Pro Racer guys). He may have stopped at 5k because he didn't like the A/F or he didn't like the trend or maybe it was time for lunch, lol. I don't know why he stopped at 5k. The power curve looks good to me but torque looks a little flat in the middle. (tq is supposed to be proportional to hp x RPM so I am puzzled as to why the hp curve climbs nicely in the region where the tq curve is kind of flat?? Puzzling.).

            I suppose that the fuel table (A/F) may need some tweaking for WOT. Again, your tuner should be able to dial it in. I agree that 13.5:1 is a little lean, lol.

            HTH,

            Chris
            2012 GT RTR 6MT; white & black
            * 3.73's, FRPP ProCal tune
            1998 GT w/4R70W (black & grey), SXA2 - gone but not forgotten

            Pro Racer Calibrations: ZFK2 (coming) & NFC1

            Comment


            • #7
              Thanks again guys!
              Chris,
              the tuner didn't run out of time, he kept the car for 3 days, he just said that he didn't want to bring it that high. The drivability at part throttle leaves a lot to be desired, it reminds me of a carbed car with the carb loading up. looking at the graph the torque dips when the a/f drops. I have a bad feeling that the tuning was WOT only (I may be wrong). If that's the case then the WOT run was from 2944rpm to 4944rpm, I would expect a lot more out of a dyno tune than a 2000 rpm window. I'm going to call SCT tomorrow and see if they can try to fix the tune if I datalog it and send them the tune file. I really don't feel safe bringing the car back to my tuner, but if I need to I will.
              jah81592 backed up everything that I've read, that an a/f of 12.5-12.8 should be good for my car NA. I just need to see about getting it to that point along with ironing out the part throttle tuning and getting it tuned to my shift point.
              It just sucks that after finally getting my car back together, I can't even drive it now. This project has sure taught me some patience.
              Once again thanks for all your help and I'll let ya'll know what happens!
              Mike

              Comment


              • #8
                If this tuner let you drive away with exhaust fumes so rich with unburned fuel that your eyes burn and your dad following can smell them with no explanation as to why you're running so rich - you need another tuner.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by robert francis
                  If this tuner let you drive away with exhaust fumes so rich with unburned fuel that your eyes burn and your dad following can smell them with no explanation as to why you're running so rich - you need another tuner.
                  I agree and that's why I don't want to take it back to him. I questioned it when I picked the car up, he said he set it up "a little fat" to be conservative, to me conservative is safe, but overly rich is not safe. Correct me if I'm wrong.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I think you have plenty of maf, injector, and fuel pump from what you are saying. I see way too many people put too large of a MAF on a car, and kill resolution. An NA car is not going to go up on the counts very much in cooler weather, compared to say a blown car.

                    Some of the things you describe are just the nature of cams, if you want good driveability you need stock cams. It may be possible to make it better with tuning, it may not. Its hard to say without seeing the car and working on it.
                    Justin Starkey
                    VMP Tuning - SCT Ford & GM Tuner - Mobile Dynojet 224xLC, Mustang GT V6 Shelby GT500 F150 4.2 4.6 5.4
                    Phone: 321-206-9369
                    Email: Justin@VMPTuning.com
                    Shop vehicles:
                    2007 Shelby GT500 with FRPP Ford Racing Blower Upgrade 590RWHP with stock pulley, FRPP intake, and VMP Tune
                    2006 F250 CC 4x4 6.0L 14.3 @ 93
                    2000 Mustang 3.8 A4 TT 450RWHP/475RWTQ 10.9@127 @17psi stock motor
                    2006 Mustang 4.0 M5 Vortech 15psi 395RWHP/374RWTQ wife's car

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Justin@VMP
                      I think you have plenty of maf, injector, and fuel pump from what you are saying. I see way too many people put too large of a MAF on a car, and kill resolution. An NA car is not going to go up on the counts very much in cooler weather, compared to say a blown car.

                      Some of the things you describe are just the nature of cams, if you want good driveability you need stock cams. It may be possible to make it better with tuning, it may not. Its hard to say without seeing the car and working on it.
                      Thanks Justin, I just got off the phone with my tuner and he said the cams were part of the problem. I told him I'd like to have the a/f raised up and the car tuned to 6500? He said the average a/f is 12.3 which it confirms that at the bottom of the graph. The a/f comes in high for a couple hundred rpms then drops which is why I think the average is what it is. He said for me to call him tomorrow to schedule a time for him to redo it. He said he's go to 6500rpm if I sign a waiver, which is fair to me. The motor is good to that rpm provided the tune is. So hopefully we can get the a/f raised and leveled off.
                      Thanks!

                      Comment

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